Discussion Dates: Friday 11th March to Friday 25th March
1.What would you give this book out of 10 and why? Has this book made you want to read the rest of the ‘Neapolitan’ novels?
Gen: I liked it but I don't really want to read the rest of the novels. I'm not a massive fan of the very domestic novel 8/10
Michelle: 8/10. I loved reading this and wanted to keep reading, but now that time has passed the story has faded, in fact I can't remember much about it, so maybe it wasn't as great as I initially thought. All I remember is the mood/feeling it created which was definitely more than a sum of it's parts... I haven't managed to answer many questions below because of this. I did love the fact that the book was about the complexity of female friendships and it strikes me as completely weird that this should be so rare.
Rachel: I am going to be extremely controversial and give this a 1/10! There is literally not one aspect of this book that I enjoyed. I found it arduous to read and found myself skimming page after page to try to find something or someone to connect to. I just don't 'get' it. As Mel said there is so much hype around the novel and people waxing lyrical about Ferrante's collection; what am I missing?! Being a literature teacher I've tried to understand and intellectualise my problem with it but I'm still not sure! At times I felt I was back reading a Judy Blume from my teens, at others I felt like I was ploughing through a Virginia Woolf 'stream of consciousness' novel...It felt relentless and monotonous and I felt trapped in the minute details of the characters' worlds. And I presume this is the point that Ella Ferrante is trying to make - her characters are trapped by circumstance. Gen I was really interested in you mentioning the domestic novel. I'm embarrassed to admit I've never heard of that as a genre before but I guess I've just discovered I'm not a big fan of them either!!
Lynne: Wow, Rachel - I love it. The most extreme scoring in book club history. I'm so glad you did it because I was thinking that, once again, I might be forced to pan a book that is achieving critical acclaim (ahem: 7 killings). Like you, I can not quite understand the hype. I'm going to give this a 4/10 and that is because I am too gutless to go lower in case the other 3 novels are mind-blowing and I look like an idiot for not recognising that this was just the beginning of a memorable journey. Instead this felt like the first episode of a TV series, laying the foundations, introducing all the characters, setting the scene...but I just found it all so tedious. Where do I start? For me, there were too many people!! I had to keep referring to the list of characters to try and remember which family bloody Gigliola, or whoever, belonged to, and then from about the half way mark I stopped caring, they were just a blur of names, except for the bad-boy brothers, Lila & Rino and Elena. I get that Ferrante was trying to portray the neighbourhood and it's complexities as a reflection of the wider world but there was too much about the inter-relationships that was unnecessary. Also, I found being inside Elena's head exhausting and annoying. The 'teenage' ups and downs, coupled with her jealousies were all so petty, and I could not see how such excessive detail was required to build a character. I quite liked Lila though as she seemed to have some spunk, but I didn't embrace her (or anybody) in this book in a way that would compel me to keep reading.
Lara: I love that our Bookclub has so many different perspectives/opinions. I didn't expect to see the above and I'm glad I did; however, I have actually quite enjoyed the books and am already a third of the way through book number two. I understand and agree with not identifying as much you might like with a single character, but I did find Lila intriguing and I can understand elements of Elena, and so I got over that. I liked the examination of the multi-dimensional female friendship and I found I wanted to know what was really driving Lila and how it would all turn out. I think female friendships in particular often have a lot of dynamics running underneath them that for a variety of reasons never surface or that the women would rather not have exposed. Plus, I simply want to know what happens - I've always been like that unless I really don't like something. I also thought I was going to feel like Lynne about the huge number of characters (like reading a Dickens novel!), but somehow I got through that eventually. Plus, in the end I love Italy and have been to Naples a few times and I liked thinking about what it was like to grow-up in the city post WWII.
Mel: Loving all your responses girls! A joy to read. I'm going to go straight down the middle of the road and give it 5/10. I was pretty bored in the first half of the book, couldn't remember who anyone was (too many people to get my head around), but I thought it picked up in the second half when Elena struck out on her own for the summer and her meditations on love, lust, jealousy etc.. became more believable as she was of an age to actually feel those things. But still, I kept waiting to have an 'ah a' moment of understanding what all the hype was about and fall in love with the book and Lila and Elena. It didn't happen. And now I have a problem... Ben saw me browsing through the second book in the series in a book shop (the display of all the books was massive - literally hundreds of them) and I told him that I was reading the first one for book club and that all the books had taken the world by storm.... next thing I know its my birthday and he has gone and bought me book 2,3 and 4!! So now I feel very much obliged to read them all. The fourth book "The Story of a Lost Child" has made the long list for the 2016 Booker Prize, so maybe I will have to wait another 3 books for my 'a ha' moment!
Sharyn: LOL Mel, I feel for you that you have to read the remaining books in the series! Bless Ben Dell for his touching gesture! I am 200 pages in and was on the verge of giving up when I thought that I would sneak a look at all your comments to see if it is worth persevering with. It seems not which I am secretly pleased about because i am on holidays in Noosa and now I can ditch it in favour of the other two books I have brought with me (The Fishermen and the Wife Drought). It's 5/10 for me. I really wanted to like this book. I love the fact that the series tracks a female friendship over decades and explores the envy and comparison which is all too common in female friendships. I found the language a bit clunky at the start but the flow improved after the first 100 pages. Once the characters moved into their adolescent years I thought it would pick up, but it was just too granular in detail. Like many of you, I found that there were too many characters to keep track of and I just wasn't interested in the local rivalries. The character development was too slow for me.
Carissa: 5/10. The activities and rivalries of the two girls as children were well described, I thought. Elena's description of Lila's throwing the doll into the cellar and her reaction to this showed clearly the two personalities. Elena captured her terror of going up the dark stairs to demand the return of the dolls from Don Achille and her utter dependence on the determination and audacity of Lila. The classroom rivalries and the importance of the teacher were portrayed in a convincing way. however, as the book progressed, I became irritated by Elena's inability to engage with life, except in the context of Lila's attitude to everything. I, too, found the many characters and families very difficult to remember.
2. Throughout the novel, Lila earns her reputation as "the misfit," while Elena comes to be known as "the good girl." How do the two live vicariously through one another, and what is it about their differing personalities that makes their relationship credible? Which girl, if any, do you most easily identify with?
Gen: Obviously as Elena is the protagonist you feel for her but Lila was the more interesting character. You got the sense that Elena was not always a reliable narrator.
Michelle: I agree Gen. I don't really identify with either girl, but I identify with the relationship. I can see so many elements of their friendship reflected in my own experiences.
Lynne: If I analyse my closest/oldest female friendship I can honestly say that I was the more focussed (read: square) type, like Elena, and my friend was the rebel. I don't think I lived vicariously through her as, from my conservative standpoint, she was making mistakes that I would never want to make. I think Elena was trying to not make mistakes, while Lila did not care. There were lots of places within the book where I could imagine the girls would want to swap places (ie: obviously Lila attending high school, and Elena being the girl that all the boys wanted to dance with), but in general, I think their differing personalities steered them along a path that kept them true and balanced their friendship.
Lara: I think they need and complement each other - and although Lila seems so strong and reckless, she keeps coming back to Elena and also shows her heart and commitment to the friendship if she thinks Elena is ever in danger. I loved Lila's brilliance and determination, but I probably fall a bit more towards the Elena side. I wonder if that would be different at all if Lila was the narrator - I don't think so, but I think we would have had a very different portrayal of events. Agree on the point about Elena not always being the most reliable narrator - although I'm not sure she knows that either. 8/10.
Mel: I don't identify with Lila at all. Too hot headed. Too willful. So I guess I identify with Elena by default. I'm not sue that I would describe Lila as a misfit. She seemed to stake out a pretty important place for herself in her community at such a tender age. Elena certainly was the 'good girl' - although it was herself and Lila that she was being 'good' for - not so much her parents or extended family.
Sharyn: I don't identify with either character but like Michelle I can identify with aspects of the relationship at that age, particularly the inevitability of comparing yourself to your friend and wondering where you stand vis-a-via other friends and boyfriends. Lila was headstrong and non-conformist but she was passionate and had big dreams and tried (albeit unsuccessfully) not to be a victim of her circumstances. Elena was actually doing some of the things that Lila dreamt about but I felt as though she did it without passion or heart. Without Lila by her side, Elena's experiences were less vivid and colourful. Lila was more naturally talented of the two whereas Elena had to work hard for her academic success. These differences meant that they complimented each other, but they shared an intellectual curiosity and a love of good conversation which bound them.
Carissa: Elena certainly lived vicariously through Lila and only pursued her studies, because she wanted to impress Lila. She chooses Antonio is her 'boyfriend', so as to be on a level with Lila, whose Stefano was '"a man", not a teenager boy. Lila did study independently, through library books, in order to know what Elena was learning. However, Lila seemed to me to be the one who led, because she acted out of her own passion, independently of the opinion of others. Elena seemed unable to act without the impetus of wanting to impress Lila, or her teachers, or somebody. She always seemed to be looking over her shoulder to see how Lila would react to what she, Elena, was achieving. I do not remember having the same thoughts and feelings as either girl.
3. What is revealed of the girls’ characters on the day they decide to skip school? Do these discoveries surprise you? How does this effect their relationship (or our sense of their relationship)?
Lynne: I can't even remember!!! My recollection was that Lila was persistent, there was a storm, they ran home and Elena copped beating. In terms of their relationship, I think Elena thinks more carefully about blindly following Lila in future.
Lara: What was interesting there is that Lila lost her daring and Elena was the one who wanted to keep going and not return home. I think Elena grew in that moment and realised that Lila had limits and that Elena herself could be daring and strong too. It also turns out that Lila is much more tied to the neighbourhood than Elena and that Elena will readily explore beyond. This theme is seen throughout the novel even though Lila is supposed to be the one that is "different".
Mel: Yes, I was surprised that Lila wanted so badly to turn back once the storm hit while Elena was determined to keep going. This did change the dynamics between the girls and also changed the way in which I perceived them.
Sharyn: That incident taught Elena that she was stronger than she had previously thought and was not always going to be the weaker one in the relationship. What was also interesting about that passage was that Elena couldn't work out whether Lila had deliberately tried to get her into trouble so that her parents would find out and not let her continue with school or had encouraged her to turn back in order to prevent that outcome. There was a question mark over how much she could trust Lila at that point in time.
Carissa: My answer is pretty well exactly as Sharyn interprets the incident. Elena makes the point that Lila 8s really a neighbourhood girl, who is not happy elsewhere. That is shown at the beginning of the book, when Elena is living in Turin and Lila has disappeared from Naples, where she has always lived.
4. What do the shoes that Lila designs and makes represent symbolically? What undertones do the shoes help to evidence in the latter half of the novel?
Lynne: I've spent a lot of time this week trying to think of what a shoe can symbolise...and I keep coming up blank. I think Lila's designs are evidence of her dreaming, her ambitions to escape the neighbourhood and to raise her standing in her family's eyes. She knows she has above-average intelligence and that her situation means she will not be able to take advantage of that, so she looks towards the resources her family has (a shoe shop and a shoe maker) and tries to formulate a future using these tools. Undertone for the latter half of the book..?..the divide between the haves and the have-nots as evidenced by the price of the shoes? Can somebody else answer this question so I can learn something?
Lara: Ha - won't claim that, but I'll try. I think that the shoes are Lila's creativity, dreams and determination coming together towards a way to get out of their current circumstances. Note that the shoes that she designs are not very practical for their neighbourhood - but rather are aspirational and attractive to those in the neighbourhood and more importantly, beyond. She was focused on getting out of the poverty and making her mark and as she wasn't going to be able to go further in school, she turns to the shoes as an outlet which corresponds to the skills in her family. Those shoes are the first steps towards the family shoe factory, her marriage, and a future that she orchestrates - a future in which she can wear the shoes but where she gives up a big part of herself too.
Lynne: Thanks Lara. You've just made me feel like I did understand a major theme in this book. Phew.
Mel: Lynna I'm on your wavelength here. I think that Lila's beautiful designs demonstrate that she can literally do anything that she turns he hand to. She has the brains and the drive and the creativity to be successful. However the shoes also show us the way in which Lila is stuck in such a patriarchal society. She can't move forward on selling the shoes unless her father and brother agree. And even then they still need a wealthy male benefactor to get the ball rolling. So even if you were as smart and creative as Lila was, as a woman in that post war period, in Naples you were stuck. Especially if you were poor as Lila was.
Carissa: The design of the shoes is complex and not at all suited to the poverty of the neighbourhood. That symbolises their creator, Lila, who, from the very beginning, stands out in school, as unlike anybody else and cleverer than everyone else. The construction of the shoes never satisfies Lila, who is searching for perfection and insists that they remain a secret until they are perfect. Lila, herself, studies in secret and does not reveal the extent of her learning until she has mastered what she is learning. At six, she has learned to read and write, but nobody has seen her learning, or helped her to learn. As Lila and Elena grow, Lila learns in secret all that Elena is learning - and more. Lila's aspirations are crushed by her parents' attitude to her education. When Rino presents the shoes to their father, he is filled with contempt for them. She hides the shoes away, just as she suppresses all her dreams of how her life would be. Later, the shoes are controlled by others - Rino displays them and he and their father sell them for an enormous price to Stefano. Lila's life becomes controlled by Stefano, Fernando and Rino. The most chilling symbolism is that Marcello, from whom Lila was sure she had escaped by accepting to marry Stefano, turns up at her wedding, in spite of her insistence to Stefano that he must not be allowed to come, wearing the shoes - which could only have been given to him by Stefano. What does this suggest about Lila's life in the future? . .
5. Page 282: "Do you love Stefano?" She said seriously, "Very much." "More than your parents, more than Rino?" "More than everyone, but not more than you." Lila’s personality seems to have grown warmer by the end of the novel. What can we attribute this change to?
Lynne: surely it's just maturity. She's growing up and understanding the value of friendship. She's less volatile, she understands herself and can see how destructive some of her previous behaviours have been. And hey, do we think her older brother (by 6 years) has an unhealthy reliance on her? What was that about?
Lara: I think Lila truly loves Elena and realises her importance, but I think she is often so focused on herself and what she is trying to do that she doesn't frequently show it. I think its maturity and the fact that she thinks she is in love and that much of what she has tried to set in motion is coming through -- however, I don't think her personality has really changed.
Mel: I wrote my comment about Rino at the very bottom of the page after answering q4, and now I see your comment above Lynna. YES - I do think that Rino was a bit creepy and overly needy of his much younger sister.
Mel: As for this question - I was very surprised that Lila was so emphatic about loving Stefano at this point, and I also found he words to Elena a relief. It is the sort of thing that Elena had been waiting to hear from her friend for so many years. It left like Lila was finally throwing a dog a bone. Maybe having all these stupid men chasing after her made her realize how great her old buddy Elena actually is.
Carissa: I agree with the suggestion that she was, at last, showing Elena that she values her friendship. However, we know from the beginning of the book, that, in her sixties, Elena, in Turin, has not heard from Lila for ages, although she has written to her regularly.
6. Discuss the moment when Lila describes Elena as ‘my brilliant friend’. Did this catch you by surprise? Did it change your understanding of their relationship? Lila says those words while encouraging Elena to continue with her education. Why is Lila so invested in this?
Gen: yes it was a surprise as obviously you thought that Lila was the brilliant one that Elena was describing. Lila wants Elena to continue her education as she wasn't able to.
Lynne: Straight after she said 'you're my brilliant friend', she says 'you have to be the best of all, boys and girls' (page 312). The 2nd part surprised me more, as if education was a competition, and that the greatest value came from comparing yourself to others. It surprised me that there was a reversal in the notion of who was the brilliant one, but as with most of the dialogue between the girls, I thought it sounded disingenuous.
Lara: I think Lila sees Elena as very smart, and although she knows that intellectually she isn't perhaps as brilliant as herself, she knows that Elena is very bright and has the chance to do what she can't, so she is pushing her (like she would herself - this is Elena's chance). I also think Lila views Elena as more balanced and thoughtful than herself.
Mel: It was so obvious that we wee meant to be surprised by this that I wasn't surprised in the least (does that make sense)?
Carissa: It certainly did take me by surprise. I had assumed that the title referred to Lila, as perceived by Elena. I suppose that Lila wanted Elena to continue her education, as she loved her and wanted her to fulfil her potential and their childhood dreams, rather than lose out in the way that Lila was doing.
7.Elena often uses uncomplimentary words to describe her friend Lila: ruthless, cold, determined, terrible, inhuman, dangerous. Does the narrator want us to dislike Lila?
Gen: Yes but you sense that Elena is jealous of Lila and wants to be more like her so it may be her own insecurity talking when she describes her in this way.
Lynne: yes, I think so. But in the end I disliked Elena instead. She obsessed about Lila too much. More than I remember teenage girls doing, but maybe I am out of touch.
Lara: I think Elena admires her friend tremendously, but if often hurt by her and jealous of her. I think Elena is trying to work through her own thoughts and emotions about Lila and is loyal to her but at the same time feels her recklessness and fears that Lila may be reckless with her too. Elena realises Lila operates on a different system than she does. You want Elena to rise above her jealousy, but I think its more realistic that she is unsure.
Carissa: It is very difficult to judge, when the only descripotion we have of Lila is that given by Elena. However, incidents recorded tend to suggest that these words do fit her character - at 6, she throws Lila's beloved doll into the dark, foul-smelling cellar. She is determined in the way she goes up to accuse Don Achille of stealing the dolls. The incident, when she pulls out the knife and pierces the skin of Marcello's throat. I don't think ELena wants us to dislike Lila, but she, herself, sometimes dislikes her, is afraid of her, is hurt by her.
8. If you had the chance in life to be either Lila or Elena who who would you choose to be and why?
Gen: not sure about either but I did go to school with an Italian girl who reminded me very much of Lila- brilliant and complicated whose life has not turned out at all to have enabled her to realise her potential.
Lynne: Probably Elena. I guess she can try to use her education to get a job and change her circumstances. All Lila has done is marry the rich kid, but she remains stuck in the neighbourhood, albeit with less of the hardships that her peers might face.
Lara: In the end, probably Elena for a variety of reasons, although I do always have a certain amount of awe for people like Lila who are so bold, talented, rebellious, and don't care what others think in the slightest. I think they are fascinating in their complexity, but they often tend to be unhappy, create unnecessary drama, and struggle to find their balance (or maybe that's the point - that's not their goal).
Mel: Elena - would much rather be married to a textbook at age 15 than some guy called Stefano!
Carissa: What a dreadful choice to have to make! I would not like to be heading for the life that I think Lila is going to have, although I admire her courage, intelligence and creativity. However, I would hate to be as jealous and competitive as Elena, about somebody else, especially a close friend. Also, I do not like the way her motivation to study is dominated by her need to impress Lila. Elena does not really seem to be a very loving friend, herself. She often admits to being pleased when something goes wrong for Lila and, when she is in Turin, aged 60ish, she admits that she has NOTHING from Lila, either because she threw it all away, or because Lila never gave her anything - she does not know which. We know that she received at least one letter from Lila, which meant a lot to her at the time. I think Elena is rather odd and would not like to be like her.
9. To what extent is the city of Naples a character in the book, as important to the overall narrative as Elena and Lila?
Gen: very much so, and it was interesting to read Mel's article about the subsequent boom in tourism in Naples since the book. I really liked Naples when I visited many years ago but you definitely get the sense of the danger/chaos that lies beneath the façade of beautiful decaying buildings.
Lynne: The descriptions of Naples and Ischia were the best parts of the book. A blessed respite from teenage introversion. Could be the only incentive to pick up the other 3 books in the series. As for Naples being a character, I did get the sense of a hot, brooding, tempestuous, volatile atmosphere from it. I didn't go to Naples when I was in Italy as it had a terrible reputation for scams and pick-pockets - seems I am a fool for missing it!
Lara: It is definitely a character in the book and its slightly rougher, poorer reputation as well as its unique position with the sea (and the Amalfi coast) so close and Vesuvius (bold, brillant and unpredictable) looming over it personifies the book. I can also say that I've had a craving for Italian food even more than normal lately ;-).
Mel: I enjoyed my days in Naples but I was always looking over my shoulder, as it felt as though it could turn on a knife edge. I also remember reading about and seeing that corruption was endemic in every area of life and the bureaucracy was mind numbing and wore you down quickly. I do remember thinking that it was just about as as beautiful and interesting a city as any other I saw in Italy.
Sharyn: I felt that there could have been more description of the physical aspects of Naples as opposed to the people. The book captures the danger, chaos and poverty of Naples, the sense of community and importance of family and business connections and but did not evoke visions of Naples for me. True, Naples is not as beautiful as its surrounding areas (Amalfi and Vesuvius) but there is a physicality to it that could have been drawn upon. Perhaps this was a product of the characters largely sticking to their neighborhood and rarely venturing outside. I have fond memories of Naples and negated the danger by staying in a monastery with a 10pm curfew, which permitted just enough time to get back after to-die-for dinners.
Carissa: The neighbourhood was definitely an important character, with its violence, duplicity, hatred, cruelty and gossip. I did not get a strong impression of the look of Naples, except of the closeness of Vesuvius and the. Amalfi coast. The descriptions of the smarter part of Naples and of the youngsters' feeling strange and being treated with contempt, were vivid. The courtyard and staircase and the shops of the neighbourhood had definite character.
10. Stefano has sworn to Lila that the Solaro brothers won’t attend their wedding. Lila blushes as she sees them swagger through the crowd; goes pale as she sees that Marcello wears the handcrafted shoes. What will she do next?
Michelle: I have no idea and that was why I wanted to read the next book!
Lynne: Arrgghhh, Mel is editing at the same time as me, again !
Lara: Exactly why I'm already into book 2!
Lynne; Ok, sorry about that. I was typing last night and saw a pop up that said Mel was editing and I feared that all my homework would be lost. Anyway, back to this question, what will Lila do next? Have to say, this was an excellent way to finish the book. Even though I found the bulk of the book a bit frustrating, this ending has me very curious about what happens next. I may not rush to buy the 2nd book, but if I come across it I'll give it a crack. I hope Lila remains true to character and has a violent and public reaction to Marcello in the shoes that Stefano initially bought, even though they were too small. There were already some simmering tensions at the wedding and I felt like it was building to an exciting climax, so I'm pretty happy with the prospect of an explosive start to Book 2.
Mel: It wasn't me!! Typing for the first time now (Mon night). If this was meant to be the big cliff hanger I found it pretty disappointing. I'm vaguely interested in knowing what comes next, but would probably not have bought the next installment for myself.
Carissa: Since I am editing at the 11th hour, I am sure nobody is clashing with me. I did like the questions surrounding the end of the book, especially the implications suggested by the arrival of Marcello in the shoes, which Stefano must have given to him, as well as inviting him to the wedding. Lila's one consistently selfless desire has been to help her family to make good. If she does what I.Imagine she would like to do and destroy the marriage, she will destroy her family, who are inextricably linked with Stefano now. The beginning of the book lets us know that Lila had a son, whom she named after her brother, not anyone in Sefano's family. WE know that she is known by her maiden name, when she is an IT expert in her 60s, but that may be part of Italian culture. I cannot imagine what Lila is going to do, but we do know that she never moves away from the neghbourhood in Naples.
11. Is there anything else that you want to ask or say about ‘My Brilliant Friend’?
Gen: It was so real in its descriptions that you feel there MUST be some autobiographical details as it demonstrated such an intimate knowledge of the times and place. I know there is a rumour that Elena Ferrante is a man- I would be shocked if this was so as it seems such a knowing insight into female relationships ...
Rachel: Gen, this point FASCINATES me. How interesting. I agree there was a convincing insight into female relationships, but there was just something missing. It was always a massive and ongoing debate in my classes at university about whether a male writer could write convincingly from a female perspective and vice versa. If this novel was written by a man, I wonder if that had anything to do with that missing element I can't put my finger on? Ultimately, this book reminded me of my own friendships whilst growing up with all the jealousies and insecurities, the friendships between girls I continue to see and deal with every day at school, and quite frankly it bores me. If I wanted to go down memory lane, I'd dig out my favourite Judy Blume and Paula Danziger from the loft...:) If anyone can help me see this novel from a different perspective, I'd be grateful!
Lara: Will let you know how the other books go...and even if you weren't a great fan of this one, I still think we should put Italy on the book club list destinations (although St. Malo is still first). I find it hard to believe Elena Ferrante is a man, but you never know....interesting.
Lynne: I always reflect on what I have written after I hit 'save' and I feel like last night I may have been a bit unkind. Perhaps I got carried away after seeing Rachel's 1/10. There were some touching moments in the book, like Elena's dad taking her to the city, her teacher's constant support and the generous arrangement of the trip to Ischia. There was a lot of truth in the attachment that young girls have with one another, that smothering closeness where you can't live with them and you can't live without them. I thought that was well portrayed. I really liked the single-mindedness of Lila, her determination and her focus; qualities that I hope my daughters can develop. I also admired Elena's dedication to her studies - she really earned all those 9s and 10s she got and the accolades that came with them. I hope that subsequent books can take the girls into adulthood with a little less of the childish drama and some more grown up themes. I'm happy in the 'domestic' novel, even more so when it is set in a location that allows me to fantasize about food AND travel.
Mel: Am I the only one who found Lila and Rino's relationship weird? He seemed to be sort of in love with his sister. Or maybe he was clinically depressed. Whatever it was - he was NOT happy. I wonder what will become of him the next few books...
Lara: I agree on the Rino - Lila relationship in that he definitely is immature and has a major dependency on her (and I just wanted him to get a good slap and grow up). So many of the character seem to have a dependency on Lina in the book though - that's quite intriguing too. Even her father ends up dependent on her or at least what she does to secure funding for the shoe factory. One thing I also respected Ferrante for doing was bringing up the Donato-Elena relationship/incident. I think this type of thing happens so more than we admit and I think we've all met men like Donato who are so "romantic" and congenial to the world, but in the end their world revolves completely around themselves. I appreciated her honesty with Elena's feelings (conflicting, but mainly revulsion) and I also think its interesting to think about the father and the son -- Nino hates his father and yet is only happy when showing off what he knows to everyone else - is that just a variant on a theme or not?
Rachel: Good to read all the comments but I'm afraid I remain unconvinced. I fear it will be on a set text list within the year and I'll be forced to teach it! Lara, if it leads to a group visit to Italy then it'll be worth the read. I'll know what to reach for during my next bout of insomnia... Against my better judgement however, I might just have to dip into the next novel. If, like those magic eye pictures from the 90s I suddenly 'see it', I'll let you all know and eat humble pie.
Discussion Dates: Friday 11th March to Friday 25th March
1.What would you give this book out of 10 and why? Has this book made you want to read the rest of the ‘Neapolitan’ novels?
Gen: I liked it but I don't really want to read the rest of the novels. I'm not a massive fan of the very domestic novel 8/10
Michelle: 8/10. I loved reading this and wanted to keep reading, but now that time has passed the story has faded, in fact I can't remember much about it, so maybe it wasn't as great as I initially thought. All I remember is the mood/feeling it created which was definitely more than a sum of it's parts... I haven't managed to answer many questions below because of this. I did love the fact that the book was about the complexity of female friendships and it strikes me as completely weird that this should be so rare.
Rachel: I am going to be extremely controversial and give this a 1/10! There is literally not one aspect of this book that I enjoyed. I found it arduous to read and found myself skimming page after page to try to find something or someone to connect to. I just don't 'get' it. As Mel said there is so much hype around the novel and people waxing lyrical about Ferrante's collection; what am I missing?! Being a literature teacher I've tried to understand and intellectualise my problem with it but I'm still not sure! At times I felt I was back reading a Judy Blume from my teens, at others I felt like I was ploughing through a Virginia Woolf 'stream of consciousness' novel...It felt relentless and monotonous and I felt trapped in the minute details of the characters' worlds. And I presume this is the point that Ella Ferrante is trying to make - her characters are trapped by circumstance. Gen I was really interested in you mentioning the domestic novel. I'm embarrassed to admit I've never heard of that as a genre before but I guess I've just discovered I'm not a big fan of them either!!
Lynne: Wow, Rachel - I love it. The most extreme scoring in book club history. I'm so glad you did it because I was thinking that, once again, I might be forced to pan a book that is achieving critical acclaim (ahem: 7 killings). Like you, I can not quite understand the hype. I'm going to give this a 4/10 and that is because I am too gutless to go lower in case the other 3 novels are mind-blowing and I look like an idiot for not recognising that this was just the beginning of a memorable journey. Instead this felt like the first episode of a TV series, laying the foundations, introducing all the characters, setting the scene...but I just found it all so tedious. Where do I start? For me, there were too many people!! I had to keep referring to the list of characters to try and remember which family bloody Gigliola, or whoever, belonged to, and then from about the half way mark I stopped caring, they were just a blur of names, except for the bad-boy brothers, Lila & Rino and Elena. I get that Ferrante was trying to portray the neighbourhood and it's complexities as a reflection of the wider world but there was too much about the inter-relationships that was unnecessary. Also, I found being inside Elena's head exhausting and annoying. The 'teenage' ups and downs, coupled with her jealousies were all so petty, and I could not see how such excessive detail was required to build a character. I quite liked Lila though as she seemed to have some spunk, but I didn't embrace her (or anybody) in this book in a way that would compel me to keep reading.
Lara: I love that our Bookclub has so many different perspectives/opinions. I didn't expect to see the above and I'm glad I did; however, I have actually quite enjoyed the books and am already a third of the way through book number two. I understand and agree with not identifying as much you might like with a single character, but I did find Lila intriguing and I can understand elements of Elena, and so I got over that. I liked the examination of the multi-dimensional female friendship and I found I wanted to know what was really driving Lila and how it would all turn out. I think female friendships in particular often have a lot of dynamics running underneath them that for a variety of reasons never surface or that the women would rather not have exposed. Plus, I simply want to know what happens - I've always been like that unless I really don't like something. I also thought I was going to feel like Lynne about the huge number of characters (like reading a Dickens novel!), but somehow I got through that eventually. Plus, in the end I love Italy and have been to Naples a few times and I liked thinking about what it was like to grow-up in the city post WWII.
Mel: Loving all your responses girls! A joy to read. I'm going to go straight down the middle of the road and give it 5/10. I was pretty bored in the first half of the book, couldn't remember who anyone was (too many people to get my head around), but I thought it picked up in the second half when Elena struck out on her own for the summer and her meditations on love, lust, jealousy etc.. became more believable as she was of an age to actually feel those things. But still, I kept waiting to have an 'ah a' moment of understanding what all the hype was about and fall in love with the book and Lila and Elena. It didn't happen. And now I have a problem... Ben saw me browsing through the second book in the series in a book shop (the display of all the books was massive - literally hundreds of them) and I told him that I was reading the first one for book club and that all the books had taken the world by storm.... next thing I know its my birthday and he has gone and bought me book 2,3 and 4!! So now I feel very much obliged to read them all. The fourth book "The Story of a Lost Child" has made the long list for the 2016 Booker Prize, so maybe I will have to wait another 3 books for my 'a ha' moment!
Sharyn: LOL Mel, I feel for you that you have to read the remaining books in the series! Bless Ben Dell for his touching gesture! I am 200 pages in and was on the verge of giving up when I thought that I would sneak a look at all your comments to see if it is worth persevering with. It seems not which I am secretly pleased about because i am on holidays in Noosa and now I can ditch it in favour of the other two books I have brought with me (The Fishermen and the Wife Drought). It's 5/10 for me. I really wanted to like this book. I love the fact that the series tracks a female friendship over decades and explores the envy and comparison which is all too common in female friendships. I found the language a bit clunky at the start but the flow improved after the first 100 pages. Once the characters moved into their adolescent years I thought it would pick up, but it was just too granular in detail. Like many of you, I found that there were too many characters to keep track of and I just wasn't interested in the local rivalries. The character development was too slow for me.
Carissa: 5/10. The activities and rivalries of the two girls as children were well described, I thought. Elena's description of Lila's throwing the doll into the cellar and her reaction to this showed clearly the two personalities. Elena captured her terror of going up the dark stairs to demand the return of the dolls from Don Achille and her utter dependence on the determination and audacity of Lila. The classroom rivalries and the importance of the teacher were portrayed in a convincing way. however, as the book progressed, I became irritated by Elena's inability to engage with life, except in the context of Lila's attitude to everything. I, too, found the many characters and families very difficult to remember.
2. Throughout the novel, Lila earns her reputation as "the misfit," while Elena comes to be known as "the good girl." How do the two live vicariously through one another, and what is it about their differing personalities that makes their relationship credible? Which girl, if any, do you most easily identify with?
Gen: Obviously as Elena is the protagonist you feel for her but Lila was the more interesting character. You got the sense that Elena was not always a reliable narrator.
Michelle: I agree Gen. I don't really identify with either girl, but I identify with the relationship. I can see so many elements of their friendship reflected in my own experiences.
Lynne: If I analyse my closest/oldest female friendship I can honestly say that I was the more focussed (read: square) type, like Elena, and my friend was the rebel. I don't think I lived vicariously through her as, from my conservative standpoint, she was making mistakes that I would never want to make. I think Elena was trying to not make mistakes, while Lila did not care. There were lots of places within the book where I could imagine the girls would want to swap places (ie: obviously Lila attending high school, and Elena being the girl that all the boys wanted to dance with), but in general, I think their differing personalities steered them along a path that kept them true and balanced their friendship.
Lara: I think they need and complement each other - and although Lila seems so strong and reckless, she keeps coming back to Elena and also shows her heart and commitment to the friendship if she thinks Elena is ever in danger. I loved Lila's brilliance and determination, but I probably fall a bit more towards the Elena side. I wonder if that would be different at all if Lila was the narrator - I don't think so, but I think we would have had a very different portrayal of events. Agree on the point about Elena not always being the most reliable narrator - although I'm not sure she knows that either. 8/10.
Mel: I don't identify with Lila at all. Too hot headed. Too willful. So I guess I identify with Elena by default. I'm not sue that I would describe Lila as a misfit. She seemed to stake out a pretty important place for herself in her community at such a tender age. Elena certainly was the 'good girl' - although it was herself and Lila that she was being 'good' for - not so much her parents or extended family.
Sharyn: I don't identify with either character but like Michelle I can identify with aspects of the relationship at that age, particularly the inevitability of comparing yourself to your friend and wondering where you stand vis-a-via other friends and boyfriends. Lila was headstrong and non-conformist but she was passionate and had big dreams and tried (albeit unsuccessfully) not to be a victim of her circumstances. Elena was actually doing some of the things that Lila dreamt about but I felt as though she did it without passion or heart. Without Lila by her side, Elena's experiences were less vivid and colourful. Lila was more naturally talented of the two whereas Elena had to work hard for her academic success. These differences meant that they complimented each other, but they shared an intellectual curiosity and a love of good conversation which bound them.
Carissa: Elena certainly lived vicariously through Lila and only pursued her studies, because she wanted to impress Lila. She chooses Antonio is her 'boyfriend', so as to be on a level with Lila, whose Stefano was '"a man", not a teenager boy. Lila did study independently, through library books, in order to know what Elena was learning. However, Lila seemed to me to be the one who led, because she acted out of her own passion, independently of the opinion of others. Elena seemed unable to act without the impetus of wanting to impress Lila, or her teachers, or somebody. She always seemed to be looking over her shoulder to see how Lila would react to what she, Elena, was achieving. I do not remember having the same thoughts and feelings as either girl.
3. What is revealed of the girls’ characters on the day they decide to skip school? Do these discoveries surprise you? How does this effect their relationship (or our sense of their relationship)?
Lynne: I can't even remember!!! My recollection was that Lila was persistent, there was a storm, they ran home and Elena copped beating. In terms of their relationship, I think Elena thinks more carefully about blindly following Lila in future.
Lara: What was interesting there is that Lila lost her daring and Elena was the one who wanted to keep going and not return home. I think Elena grew in that moment and realised that Lila had limits and that Elena herself could be daring and strong too. It also turns out that Lila is much more tied to the neighbourhood than Elena and that Elena will readily explore beyond. This theme is seen throughout the novel even though Lila is supposed to be the one that is "different".
Mel: Yes, I was surprised that Lila wanted so badly to turn back once the storm hit while Elena was determined to keep going. This did change the dynamics between the girls and also changed the way in which I perceived them.
Sharyn: That incident taught Elena that she was stronger than she had previously thought and was not always going to be the weaker one in the relationship. What was also interesting about that passage was that Elena couldn't work out whether Lila had deliberately tried to get her into trouble so that her parents would find out and not let her continue with school or had encouraged her to turn back in order to prevent that outcome. There was a question mark over how much she could trust Lila at that point in time.
Carissa: My answer is pretty well exactly as Sharyn interprets the incident. Elena makes the point that Lila 8s really a neighbourhood girl, who is not happy elsewhere. That is shown at the beginning of the book, when Elena is living in Turin and Lila has disappeared from Naples, where she has always lived.
4. What do the shoes that Lila designs and makes represent symbolically? What undertones do the shoes help to evidence in the latter half of the novel?
Lynne: I've spent a lot of time this week trying to think of what a shoe can symbolise...and I keep coming up blank. I think Lila's designs are evidence of her dreaming, her ambitions to escape the neighbourhood and to raise her standing in her family's eyes. She knows she has above-average intelligence and that her situation means she will not be able to take advantage of that, so she looks towards the resources her family has (a shoe shop and a shoe maker) and tries to formulate a future using these tools. Undertone for the latter half of the book..?..the divide between the haves and the have-nots as evidenced by the price of the shoes? Can somebody else answer this question so I can learn something?
Lara: Ha - won't claim that, but I'll try. I think that the shoes are Lila's creativity, dreams and determination coming together towards a way to get out of their current circumstances. Note that the shoes that she designs are not very practical for their neighbourhood - but rather are aspirational and attractive to those in the neighbourhood and more importantly, beyond. She was focused on getting out of the poverty and making her mark and as she wasn't going to be able to go further in school, she turns to the shoes as an outlet which corresponds to the skills in her family. Those shoes are the first steps towards the family shoe factory, her marriage, and a future that she orchestrates - a future in which she can wear the shoes but where she gives up a big part of herself too.
Lynne: Thanks Lara. You've just made me feel like I did understand a major theme in this book. Phew.
Mel: Lynna I'm on your wavelength here. I think that Lila's beautiful designs demonstrate that she can literally do anything that she turns he hand to. She has the brains and the drive and the creativity to be successful. However the shoes also show us the way in which Lila is stuck in such a patriarchal society. She can't move forward on selling the shoes unless her father and brother agree. And even then they still need a wealthy male benefactor to get the ball rolling. So even if you were as smart and creative as Lila was, as a woman in that post war period, in Naples you were stuck. Especially if you were poor as Lila was.
Carissa: The design of the shoes is complex and not at all suited to the poverty of the neighbourhood. That symbolises their creator, Lila, who, from the very beginning, stands out in school, as unlike anybody else and cleverer than everyone else. The construction of the shoes never satisfies Lila, who is searching for perfection and insists that they remain a secret until they are perfect. Lila, herself, studies in secret and does not reveal the extent of her learning until she has mastered what she is learning. At six, she has learned to read and write, but nobody has seen her learning, or helped her to learn. As Lila and Elena grow, Lila learns in secret all that Elena is learning - and more. Lila's aspirations are crushed by her parents' attitude to her education. When Rino presents the shoes to their father, he is filled with contempt for them. She hides the shoes away, just as she suppresses all her dreams of how her life would be. Later, the shoes are controlled by others - Rino displays them and he and their father sell them for an enormous price to Stefano. Lila's life becomes controlled by Stefano, Fernando and Rino. The most chilling symbolism is that Marcello, from whom Lila was sure she had escaped by accepting to marry Stefano, turns up at her wedding, in spite of her insistence to Stefano that he must not be allowed to come, wearing the shoes - which could only have been given to him by Stefano. What does this suggest about Lila's life in the future? . .
5. Page 282: "Do you love Stefano?" She said seriously, "Very much." "More than your parents, more than Rino?" "More than everyone, but not more than you." Lila’s personality seems to have grown warmer by the end of the novel. What can we attribute this change to?
Lynne: surely it's just maturity. She's growing up and understanding the value of friendship. She's less volatile, she understands herself and can see how destructive some of her previous behaviours have been. And hey, do we think her older brother (by 6 years) has an unhealthy reliance on her? What was that about?
Lara: I think Lila truly loves Elena and realises her importance, but I think she is often so focused on herself and what she is trying to do that she doesn't frequently show it. I think its maturity and the fact that she thinks she is in love and that much of what she has tried to set in motion is coming through -- however, I don't think her personality has really changed.
Mel: I wrote my comment about Rino at the very bottom of the page after answering q4, and now I see your comment above Lynna. YES - I do think that Rino was a bit creepy and overly needy of his much younger sister.
Mel: As for this question - I was very surprised that Lila was so emphatic about loving Stefano at this point, and I also found he words to Elena a relief. It is the sort of thing that Elena had been waiting to hear from her friend for so many years. It left like Lila was finally throwing a dog a bone. Maybe having all these stupid men chasing after her made her realize how great her old buddy Elena actually is.
Carissa: I agree with the suggestion that she was, at last, showing Elena that she values her friendship. However, we know from the beginning of the book, that, in her sixties, Elena, in Turin, has not heard from Lila for ages, although she has written to her regularly.
6. Discuss the moment when Lila describes Elena as ‘my brilliant friend’. Did this catch you by surprise? Did it change your understanding of their relationship? Lila says those words while encouraging Elena to continue with her education. Why is Lila so invested in this?
Gen: yes it was a surprise as obviously you thought that Lila was the brilliant one that Elena was describing. Lila wants Elena to continue her education as she wasn't able to.
Lynne: Straight after she said 'you're my brilliant friend', she says 'you have to be the best of all, boys and girls' (page 312). The 2nd part surprised me more, as if education was a competition, and that the greatest value came from comparing yourself to others. It surprised me that there was a reversal in the notion of who was the brilliant one, but as with most of the dialogue between the girls, I thought it sounded disingenuous.
Lara: I think Lila sees Elena as very smart, and although she knows that intellectually she isn't perhaps as brilliant as herself, she knows that Elena is very bright and has the chance to do what she can't, so she is pushing her (like she would herself - this is Elena's chance). I also think Lila views Elena as more balanced and thoughtful than herself.
Mel: It was so obvious that we wee meant to be surprised by this that I wasn't surprised in the least (does that make sense)?
Carissa: It certainly did take me by surprise. I had assumed that the title referred to Lila, as perceived by Elena. I suppose that Lila wanted Elena to continue her education, as she loved her and wanted her to fulfil her potential and their childhood dreams, rather than lose out in the way that Lila was doing.
7.Elena often uses uncomplimentary words to describe her friend Lila: ruthless, cold, determined, terrible, inhuman, dangerous. Does the narrator want us to dislike Lila?
Gen: Yes but you sense that Elena is jealous of Lila and wants to be more like her so it may be her own insecurity talking when she describes her in this way.
Lynne: yes, I think so. But in the end I disliked Elena instead. She obsessed about Lila too much. More than I remember teenage girls doing, but maybe I am out of touch.
Lara: I think Elena admires her friend tremendously, but if often hurt by her and jealous of her. I think Elena is trying to work through her own thoughts and emotions about Lila and is loyal to her but at the same time feels her recklessness and fears that Lila may be reckless with her too. Elena realises Lila operates on a different system than she does. You want Elena to rise above her jealousy, but I think its more realistic that she is unsure.
Carissa: It is very difficult to judge, when the only descripotion we have of Lila is that given by Elena. However, incidents recorded tend to suggest that these words do fit her character - at 6, she throws Lila's beloved doll into the dark, foul-smelling cellar. She is determined in the way she goes up to accuse Don Achille of stealing the dolls. The incident, when she pulls out the knife and pierces the skin of Marcello's throat. I don't think ELena wants us to dislike Lila, but she, herself, sometimes dislikes her, is afraid of her, is hurt by her.
8. If you had the chance in life to be either Lila or Elena who who would you choose to be and why?
Gen: not sure about either but I did go to school with an Italian girl who reminded me very much of Lila- brilliant and complicated whose life has not turned out at all to have enabled her to realise her potential.
Lynne: Probably Elena. I guess she can try to use her education to get a job and change her circumstances. All Lila has done is marry the rich kid, but she remains stuck in the neighbourhood, albeit with less of the hardships that her peers might face.
Lara: In the end, probably Elena for a variety of reasons, although I do always have a certain amount of awe for people like Lila who are so bold, talented, rebellious, and don't care what others think in the slightest. I think they are fascinating in their complexity, but they often tend to be unhappy, create unnecessary drama, and struggle to find their balance (or maybe that's the point - that's not their goal).
Mel: Elena - would much rather be married to a textbook at age 15 than some guy called Stefano!
Carissa: What a dreadful choice to have to make! I would not like to be heading for the life that I think Lila is going to have, although I admire her courage, intelligence and creativity. However, I would hate to be as jealous and competitive as Elena, about somebody else, especially a close friend. Also, I do not like the way her motivation to study is dominated by her need to impress Lila. Elena does not really seem to be a very loving friend, herself. She often admits to being pleased when something goes wrong for Lila and, when she is in Turin, aged 60ish, she admits that she has NOTHING from Lila, either because she threw it all away, or because Lila never gave her anything - she does not know which. We know that she received at least one letter from Lila, which meant a lot to her at the time. I think Elena is rather odd and would not like to be like her.
9. To what extent is the city of Naples a character in the book, as important to the overall narrative as Elena and Lila?
Gen: very much so, and it was interesting to read Mel's article about the subsequent boom in tourism in Naples since the book. I really liked Naples when I visited many years ago but you definitely get the sense of the danger/chaos that lies beneath the façade of beautiful decaying buildings.Lynne: The descriptions of Naples and Ischia were the best parts of the book. A blessed respite from teenage introversion. Could be the only incentive to pick up the other 3 books in the series. As for Naples being a character, I did get the sense of a hot, brooding, tempestuous, volatile atmosphere from it. I didn't go to Naples when I was in Italy as it had a terrible reputation for scams and pick-pockets - seems I am a fool for missing it!
Lara: It is definitely a character in the book and its slightly rougher, poorer reputation as well as its unique position with the sea (and the Amalfi coast) so close and Vesuvius (bold, brillant and unpredictable) looming over it personifies the book. I can also say that I've had a craving for Italian food even more than normal lately ;-).
Mel: I enjoyed my days in Naples but I was always looking over my shoulder, as it felt as though it could turn on a knife edge. I also remember reading about and seeing that corruption was endemic in every area of life and the bureaucracy was mind numbing and wore you down quickly. I do remember thinking that it was just about as as beautiful and interesting a city as any other I saw in Italy.
Sharyn: I felt that there could have been more description of the physical aspects of Naples as opposed to the people. The book captures the danger, chaos and poverty of Naples, the sense of community and importance of family and business connections and but did not evoke visions of Naples for me. True, Naples is not as beautiful as its surrounding areas (Amalfi and Vesuvius) but there is a physicality to it that could have been drawn upon. Perhaps this was a product of the characters largely sticking to their neighborhood and rarely venturing outside. I have fond memories of Naples and negated the danger by staying in a monastery with a 10pm curfew, which permitted just enough time to get back after to-die-for dinners.
Carissa: The neighbourhood was definitely an important character, with its violence, duplicity, hatred, cruelty and gossip. I did not get a strong impression of the look of Naples, except of the closeness of Vesuvius and the. Amalfi coast. The descriptions of the smarter part of Naples and of the youngsters' feeling strange and being treated with contempt, were vivid. The courtyard and staircase and the shops of the neighbourhood had definite character.
10. Stefano has sworn to Lila that the Solaro brothers won’t attend their wedding. Lila blushes as she sees them swagger through the crowd; goes pale as she sees that Marcello wears the handcrafted shoes. What will she do next?
Michelle: I have no idea and that was why I wanted to read the next book!
Lynne: Arrgghhh, Mel is editing at the same time as me, again !
Lara: Exactly why I'm already into book 2!
Lynne; Ok, sorry about that. I was typing last night and saw a pop up that said Mel was editing and I feared that all my homework would be lost. Anyway, back to this question, what will Lila do next? Have to say, this was an excellent way to finish the book. Even though I found the bulk of the book a bit frustrating, this ending has me very curious about what happens next. I may not rush to buy the 2nd book, but if I come across it I'll give it a crack. I hope Lila remains true to character and has a violent and public reaction to Marcello in the shoes that Stefano initially bought, even though they were too small. There were already some simmering tensions at the wedding and I felt like it was building to an exciting climax, so I'm pretty happy with the prospect of an explosive start to Book 2.
Mel: It wasn't me!! Typing for the first time now (Mon night). If this was meant to be the big cliff hanger I found it pretty disappointing. I'm vaguely interested in knowing what comes next, but would probably not have bought the next installment for myself.
Carissa: Since I am editing at the 11th hour, I am sure nobody is clashing with me. I did like the questions surrounding the end of the book, especially the implications suggested by the arrival of Marcello in the shoes, which Stefano must have given to him, as well as inviting him to the wedding. Lila's one consistently selfless desire has been to help her family to make good. If she does what I.Imagine she would like to do and destroy the marriage, she will destroy her family, who are inextricably linked with Stefano now. The beginning of the book lets us know that Lila had a son, whom she named after her brother, not anyone in Sefano's family. WE know that she is known by her maiden name, when she is an IT expert in her 60s, but that may be part of Italian culture. I cannot imagine what Lila is going to do, but we do know that she never moves away from the neghbourhood in Naples.
11. Is there anything else that you want to ask or say about ‘My Brilliant Friend’?
Gen: It was so real in its descriptions that you feel there MUST be some autobiographical details as it demonstrated such an intimate knowledge of the times and place. I know there is a rumour that Elena Ferrante is a man- I would be shocked if this was so as it seems such a knowing insight into female relationships ...Rachel: Gen, this point FASCINATES me. How interesting. I agree there was a convincing insight into female relationships, but there was just something missing. It was always a massive and ongoing debate in my classes at university about whether a male writer could write convincingly from a female perspective and vice versa. If this novel was written by a man, I wonder if that had anything to do with that missing element I can't put my finger on? Ultimately, this book reminded me of my own friendships whilst growing up with all the jealousies and insecurities, the friendships between girls I continue to see and deal with every day at school, and quite frankly it bores me. If I wanted to go down memory lane, I'd dig out my favourite Judy Blume and Paula Danziger from the loft...:) If anyone can help me see this novel from a different perspective, I'd be grateful!
Lara: Will let you know how the other books go...and even if you weren't a great fan of this one, I still think we should put Italy on the book club list destinations (although St. Malo is still first). I find it hard to believe Elena Ferrante is a man, but you never know....interesting.
Lynne: I always reflect on what I have written after I hit 'save' and I feel like last night I may have been a bit unkind. Perhaps I got carried away after seeing Rachel's 1/10. There were some touching moments in the book, like Elena's dad taking her to the city, her teacher's constant support and the generous arrangement of the trip to Ischia. There was a lot of truth in the attachment that young girls have with one another, that smothering closeness where you can't live with them and you can't live without them. I thought that was well portrayed. I really liked the single-mindedness of Lila, her determination and her focus; qualities that I hope my daughters can develop. I also admired Elena's dedication to her studies - she really earned all those 9s and 10s she got and the accolades that came with them. I hope that subsequent books can take the girls into adulthood with a little less of the childish drama and some more grown up themes. I'm happy in the 'domestic' novel, even more so when it is set in a location that allows me to fantasize about food AND travel.
Mel: Am I the only one who found Lila and Rino's relationship weird? He seemed to be sort of in love with his sister. Or maybe he was clinically depressed. Whatever it was - he was NOT happy. I wonder what will become of him the next few books...
Lara: I agree on the Rino - Lila relationship in that he definitely is immature and has a major dependency on her (and I just wanted him to get a good slap and grow up). So many of the character seem to have a dependency on Lina in the book though - that's quite intriguing too. Even her father ends up dependent on her or at least what she does to secure funding for the shoe factory. One thing I also respected Ferrante for doing was bringing up the Donato-Elena relationship/incident. I think this type of thing happens so more than we admit and I think we've all met men like Donato who are so "romantic" and congenial to the world, but in the end their world revolves completely around themselves. I appreciated her honesty with Elena's feelings (conflicting, but mainly revulsion) and I also think its interesting to think about the father and the son -- Nino hates his father and yet is only happy when showing off what he knows to everyone else - is that just a variant on a theme or not?
Rachel: Good to read all the comments but I'm afraid I remain unconvinced. I fear it will be on a set text list within the year and I'll be forced to teach it! Lara, if it leads to a group visit to Italy then it'll be worth the read. I'll know what to reach for during my next bout of insomnia... Against my better judgement however, I might just have to dip into the next novel. If, like those magic eye pictures from the 90s I suddenly 'see it', I'll let you all know and eat humble pie.